Episode 29: Women in Tech with Nicci Townsend
This week we sat down with Pat's former co-worker at EvolveIP, Nicci Townsend. We talk about her role at Microsoft, hybrid/multi-cloud options, and Nicci's nonprofit organization she founded, TechaWare. Follow Nicci and TechaWare on all their socials, they have a lot of great things to offer and some amazing events coming up in a city near you!
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Pat: 0:31
Hey everybody. Welcome back to this. Week's edition of breaking down the bites podcast from far and wide. Welcome wherever you're listening from. Thanks for joining us this week. I'm your host, pat. You can find me on Twitter @layer8packet. That's the number eight. And Kyle is with me as always doing his thing. Riding shotgun, Kyle you're on Twitter @Danath256. The show is on Twitter @breakinbytespod. So we're pretty active on Twitter. Come say, hello, Kyle. What's up man. Another week here we are discussing all things it and trying to help some of the newbies break into this crazy world that we've been living in the last 20 ish years. What's up, man.
Kyle: 1:14
Yeah, that's it. You know, everything's pretty good, pretty standard real hot this week kind of gross. Just being outside is not great. Even inside. Isn't so great. But you know, we get by, you gotta keep the equipment. Cool. Right. That's the only thing that's really
Pat: 1:31
You gotta, you gotta keep the
Kyle: 1:33
The rest of us are
Pat: 1:33
yeah, exactly. Yeah. You gotta keep the hamsters well fed and watered or else they don't do anything. So, and taking away internet, it makes me a sad boy. Exactly. So yeah it's really hot this week here in our little corner of the world. Kyle and I are in Pennsylvania, if you're not aware if you're listening from wherever yeah, it is super hot this week and I am not okay. Like I just took the garbage out a couple minutes ago before this show and I was just like, all right, that 32nd, walk down, the driveway was just enough for me. Like, I'm ready to be inside this is not okay. You know, you like us bigger people. We just, we don't do well with the heat. It just, it's not a good mix. So, so, yeah, super hot, but getting back to on task here I've been looking forward to this episode for quite a while. We have a good friend of mine, former coworker of mine. Miss Niccii Townsend with us tonight. And Nicci, I'm gonna get your title, right? You are currently the manager of customer success at Microsoft. Is that correct?
Nicci: 2:32
Yeah. Yeah. So you add one more word on there. It's super long it's manager of customer success, account management.
Pat: 2:39
wow. then.
Nicci: 2:41
know a manager of managers. No it, but yeah that's great. We do have customer success managers and customer success account managers. So that is what I do. Thanks for having
Pat: 2:51
tongue twister. Yeah, absolutely. Nicci, you and ci go way back, couple years to a former employee of both of ours. Nicci and I both worked out of EvolveIP who, if you don't know what EvolveIP is, they are a cloud strategy company for the last couple of years, but when Nicci and I were there, they were a cloud services company and Nicci, you would agree most of their bread and butter was their hosted VoIP platform phones UCaaS, stuff like that. That's where their bread was.
Nicci: 3:19
UCA.
Pat: 3:20
Yeah. That's where their bread was buttered. We had a, we had a lot of fun at. At evolve, at least I did. It was one of those places where it was different. It felt like a startup, but it really wasn't a startup, if that makes sense. They did a lot of good things. Like, you know, they had quarterly meetings where they would, you know, cater and, you know, wine and booze. It was cool party vibes and, or, you know, Friday, you know, people would crack a beer at 12 and, you know, work at their desk and you know, that kind of stuff. So it, it had that start and we had, you know, the ping pong tables and the Xbox, and we had all that stuff which was really cool. It had that startup feel to it. But we did a lot of work and we played hard and we worked hard and I think that's probably the best way to sum that up that time of life. Wouldn't you agree there, Nicci?
Nicci: 4:06
Yeah. And I think the startup environment is accurate. And I think what you're describing is culture. I mean, they were in truly regionally, at least to outside Philly an innovator when it came to open concept for, you know, for just the way we were organized and how we sat next to each other. There were no walls between us. There were no cubicles, it was just open concept sharing of ideas and collaboration, and just early you know, sort of trends setter when it came to that open work concept and just an incredibly close culture when you're doing projects, like we were to your point, we wore so many hats. We were up late working together side by side, you know, would some of the projects would go into the weekends and we built that company together as a team and it was like a family. So yeah I think it it was a really special time for me, certainly as a woman in tech, for
Pat: 4:54
We really. Man, we really hit it hard there for a while. We were just, it was just nonstop. People were just back and forth and it was just hot and heavy. Just anybody was coming through there. And I mean, and I was part of the service activation center, which we called it the SAC for short which is kind of funny, but,
Nicci: 5:11
I remember that was like, okay, this is a lot of acronyms going on here. Right. But that one in particular was sort of interesting.
Pat: 5:19
So, yeah, so I was part of the service activation center. So basically my responsibility was like a field engineer, right? So our again, our bread and butter evolved bread and butter was hosted VoIP. So we would configure, you know, voice routers, Cisco switches. We had some folks that, that we did their managed data. So, you know, Cisco ASAs, things of that nature. And then if it was in, I think it was like, what, like a 50 mile radius of king of Pria. We would, you know, it would be my team, you know, hitting the street and going out and putting it in. And, but if it was nationally, then we, you know, we contracted through, through granite tele telecom, and they would call in and we would tell 'em where to plug things and this port goes to
Nicci: 5:56
Oh yeah,
Pat: 5:57
and, you know, make sure, you know, the routers come online and, you know, you pick up a phone, make sure you can call and. Back to the project manager. It went for the actual port of numbers and actually go live. But, you know, to, to your point, Nicci, like working after hours, I put so many after hours into that because nobody switches to a different phone system in the middle of the day. Right. so like, we literally were like, it
Nicci: 6:20
we really
Pat: 6:21
11 o'clock, sometimes midnight. And one of our biggest cl our biggest client at that point, I won't name names, but they were all over and, you know, they were on the west coast and it's like, all right, well, six o'clock on the west coast is nine o'clock here and, or, you know, seven, 10 things of that nature. So it's like, we put it in a lot of hours. I put in more hours at my own kitchen table than I did at, you know, in my office or, you know, in our open, you know, cubicles there. But yeah, it was a great time. We learned a lot. It was really cool. And I got flyers tickets out of it. So that was all good too. I was.
Nicci: 6:51
Hey, we entertained customers well and, you know, I love where you're going with that because you were talking about, you guys were the entry point for these customers. And so you guys from a technical perspective would provide you know, activation, but there's so much more that you did. I mean, you became friendly with these customers and got to know them over the life of that install. And then, yeah. Okay. The project manager was involved and that was there too. And the handoff from you guys to our team, which was account management was just a wonderful experience, you know, working side by side with someone incredibly technical and listening to the way you guys talked to customers and then allowing us to take the customer and drive them through. The journey that they were on with us was just really exciting. That's how I learned. Talk about the stuff that I know today. I mean, you, in particular mean really note how many times at night where you'd be like, okay, well, this is what the switch does, and this is I'd be like, okay, all right. You know, so it was very, it was just like education coming at you left and right. You know, just on the job training and really learning how things work. And at the same time, you know, sharpening your skills on how you build relationships with customers
Pat: 7:58
Yeah. And I remember there was a few times where, you know, we would, you know, be so close to these customers or whoever our point of contact was technically, and then, you know, six months down the road they'd call in and, you know, they'd want to talk to us, like one of us in my department, you know, that kind of thing, cuz they kind of knew where we were, you know, what our skill level was and where we were coming from. So we tried to curb some of that, but you know, that obviously that, that handholding never quite stops. Right. As we all know. So, but yeah, I mean, you know, for customers and getting to know customers and, you know, kind of building that trust, like I left evolve for a customer, so they were like, yeah, we really like you, we want you on our team. And I was like, okay, see ya. Yeah. it was like, all right, cool.
Nicci: 8:37
so that's what I mean. I think people in tech or who are more technical like yourself, I think you underestimate the relationship quality. You become a trusted advisor for these customers. And I try to coach my current team on that very notion that you can be really good at relationship. And you can be really good at tech, but if you happen to have both, you're at a real advantage to have a customer truly trust you. And I sincerely mean that they literally will reach out and recruit you if they could, you know, because they know you understand their business and you wanna help them provide you know, value around the services and solutions that you're installing. And that there's nothing like it because they could get the service kind of anywhere, to be honest with you, when it's commoditized the way some of this stuff, you know, becomes so quickly ubiquitous, I think it just you gotta stand out and if you can have a relationship with the customer that helps you stand out.
Pat: 9:27
Yeah I, I agree. I think, you know, we talk about this on the show all the time, you know, you know, your EQ is just as important as your IQ, right. And your actual skills. So I think it, it is more, I think it's shifting more. Right. So I think EQ is more important at least in some veins. And it's more like a 75, 25 type of deal with EQ versus IQ. So, yeah, you can never be too nice to somebody and at least, you know, form that human element in that relationship with people. So, yeah, I had a blast it was really great. It really kind of grew, you know, grew my skills. And as far as getting some real hands on work and seeing what actual life is like out there and getting just wide open to everything. I think of all for a lot of things and kind of. Put me on the fast track to my it career is certainly one of them cuz they really did looking back at it now you know, it's very, you know, you look on it very humbling as far as, you know, the people that you meet. They, you know, the relationships you meet, you know, that you have and then obviously, you know, what people can, you know, do for you later. So I think it's, I think it's been awesome. So kind of circling off of that, Nicci I left evolve in 2000. Oh geez. 15, 16,
Nicci: 10:35
think it was, yeah. Can't believe it was that long ago. Yeah.
Pat: 10:38
So, so, and I know evolve has gone through a lot of changes in the last, especially in the last couple of years, like two, three years. Like they've really kind, I don't wanna say pivoted, but like there's a lot of people that I know that don't either work there anymore for various reasons. So when did you kind of get out and, find Microsoft or did Microsoft find
Nicci: 10:57
Yeah. Right, I mean, I think it was a little bit of both, which is actually really cool. So I left at the end of 2020. So, I finished off that the COVID year, the first COVID year, I guess you could say, which was truly challenging for everybody. Evolved, did some incredible things. They were definitely one of the first again, you know, sort of more regionally based companies that was able to offer a team's enabled seat which was awesome because everybody was keeping, you know, their staffs at home and being like, okay, wait a second. You know, we have zoom, oh, we have slack, oh, we have some teams over here. Like they didn't really know what was going on. They had different, you know, types of chat systems and ways of communicating. Some people were living on their cell phones doing FaceTime. It was crazy. So evolve was really Going through some great growth, I think actually during COVID, which was fantastic for them. And that actually felt like a really good time, believe it or not to say, okay, I think I've done all I can here. So, after I built their account management team with, you know, some of the executives of course, and some of the folks that had hired me, you know, prior to me getting there. Another lovely young woman that we, that I still know and talk to her almost every day today, she hired me in and she said, you know, I knew that we would get along really well and you would help us build this team. So I felt great about that. And it was time for me to move on. I had applied to Microsoft, you know, maybe couple times I wanna say this might have been my third attempt. It takes a while to get into a larger company. You know, we're coming from these small, you know, enterprise that we were part of, you know, like you said, startup feel, but very much incredible culture and good corporate values. And but we did a lot of things ourselves. You know, I've built an account management team. You helped build an activation center. Like, I mean, there's just a lot of entrepreneurial aspects to who we are. I mean, look what you're doing now, you know, have a podcast, you have a full-time job, you have a family. That's just how we're built. And so getting into a larger company is not easy. So I think it was my third attempt and I had a really strong referral, which helped a lot. That's certainly something that helped when you're trying to get Just to even figure out what position would align with what you currently do, if that's what you're looking for. So, I don't necessarily believe in luck, but it felt like the stars and the universe collided, right? Like where there was this perfect, you know, preparation that I had made to get into Microsoft. And they happened to have an opening for a manager doing exactly what I was doing, which was managing a team of account managers who support enterprise or like S 500 customers. And it was so cool because it happened to also be that they needed the manager to cover media and entertainment customers, which was just like blowing my mind because I had some experience with a product line that I took to QVC and I had, you know, spent a lot of time with the QVC world. And so I knew kind of what it was like to be in media, especially coming. Out of a pandemic or actually in the middle of a pandemic. So the stars just totally, you know, aligned for me. And I got the role in April of 2021, but it takes about 10 weeks to onboard. So I actually started in June of 21. So I've been there for about one year and managing a team of 10 people who support these media and entertainment S 500, you know, customers that are a few of them are global and helping them, you know, just take their digital transformation journey through Microsoft, across all the clouds that they offer. So it's yeah. So I've been there just about a year.
Pat: 14:19
Yeah. It's interesting. So as far as your role now, is there a specific, like vein you work in like, cuz Microsoft has a, you know, a ton of stuff. So like, are you more focused in like, oh 365 or Azure or like teams in UCAS or power BI or like, do you have a vein in that or is it everything.
Nicci: 14:36
It is. And here's what it is. It, depending upon how the customer entered their relationship with Microsoft, many of them could have entered with an M 365, you know, sort of. Enterprise agreement, which would be the likely case and some of them by now, especially by the time I joined had embarked on some kind of journey in with Azure, you know, bringing some workloads in or some applications or whatever. But really the job is exactly that. Yes, what we do is cross solution with our account executive and our technology leads. So pretty much every customer in the portfolio has an account manager, a salesperson and a technology lead. That's like their core team. And of course there's tons of people around that, that support them. But depending upon how they've entered into the relationship, our job with those other roles is to go in and talk to them about their business needs. What kind of outcomes are they looking for? How can we help them meet their goals? And so, yeah, that does mean cross solutioning into Azure. If they're not currently engaged in those opportunities with us power BI could be dynamics. So yeah basically across all the Microsoft clouds and it's really fun because the it's makes it limitless. There's like nothing we can't can't help a customer with, which is really great.
Pat: 15:50
Sure. Nah, that makes a lot of sense. So, so how many clients do you currently like, support? Like, is it like a hard, like fast number? Like, okay. You know, each person gets 10 accounts and, or is there a number of that or is there like a skill level to say, okay, look you know, this account person is really good in, you know, office 365 or Azure. So I'm gonna give you this one or like, how does that work?
Nicci: 16:14
Oh, yeah, you touched on some really good stuff there. So there's a lot of meat here, so, okay. okay. I'm gonna unpack that one. But here's where that, that goes in the world that I'm in within the region that, that I'm in, which is the Northeast region. I'm on the strategics team. So that typically would mean that one S 500 customer. It doesn't, it's not always a one to one, you know, would have one CSAM or one account manager supporting them. Now they might have more than one actually. So to your point where we're headed, because the role is evolving and growing so much is that's very likely that an account might have something like a global CSAM that sits at top all the businesses across all the countries that they might, you know, be doing business in. And they might also have a CSAM that's specific to Azure. Maybe modern work could be the other way around. It could be that there is someone sitting like more as a portfolio director and perhaps that. The two C Sams, maybe there's two of them. Maybe one of them shares more of the support and contractual obligations and the other one is solutioning. So it, we actually have the freedom, which is beautiful to craft, whatever works for that strategic customer, what are their needs? What is their makeup? How is their roadmap look? How are they organized? Can we align to maybe how they're organized? Even though it's one customer and one CSAM, you know, that's typically how that works as we grow the customer. And they essentially maybe not just spend more, but do more with us. We can add more resources, meaning additional CSAM S and then we can. Giving those CSAM specific roles, which is so exciting. So there's so much potential in this particular role right now at Microsoft. It is really exciting to be part of that. And I knew that was happening when I was looking for the role, but I didn't realize how much actual growth and potential there is for these people. So to answer your question in my particular area, it's typically one strategic customer gets at least one to two, you know, CSAM S some other sectors will have a CSAM might actually have yes, like 10, 20, 30 accounts. And they're, they sort of organize the business a little differently across that, but in my particular portfolio, we're lucky that we get to just really be dedicated to that one customer.
Pat: 18:25
Yeah, I think that helps, I think in today's world with some of the bigger players out there, right? The Microsoft's the, you know, the Googles with their, you know, GCP, right? The Ciscos, the VMwares, all that kind of stuff. They all sort of borrow from that model. Because, you know, obviously when you are a larger company, you sort of have more pull because you are that large and it comes down to dollars, right. People take care of the people that spend dollars. So I think that's, it is what it is. Right. That's the yeah, I don't wanna say the ugly truth. It's just, it is what it is, but yeah, I think that's a part of it. Right. I think that's, you know, the bigger you are the more, you know, the more grease you get from, you know, from the wheel that you're pushing So, you know, I feel like that. So is there, and I don't know, is there a way to sort of. Have some of the small quotes, smaller guys get noticed, or get get up the ladder if you will, and try to be on par with some of those bigger guys when it comes to getting support. Because I know quite a few companies that are small, but they make a lot of bank now, whether they're spending it on vendors, that's a different story, but, you know, so size doesn't necessarily mean money pumping out. So like you could, you know, you could have both, right. You could be a small place and really make some bank or, you know, as much or whatever as a larger one. So how do you get the smaller guys that have a smaller footprint or people wise, right? Employee wise to come up and really get that experience that some of the larger folks or larger companies, you know, enjoy right.
Nicci: 20:02
Yeah. That's a good point. A and you know, that, that's interesting because is it the case that every customer gets essentially, you know, the same. Type of resources. No, not really. I mean, there's certainly certain sectors that you're right. Or maybe they get more reactive support and that's about it. But you know, I would say that Microsoft is so good at showing customers what other options they have, what opportunities they have to grow their business with us. So very quickly a customer could engage in, let's say just like a teams deal for their entire organization. And even if it's not a large quantity of users we do look at that pretty seriously. And at least there's an opportunity for them to have maybe like a downstream version of what we do in the strategic. So there's, there are definitely teams of people that reactive slash proactive would be able to show the customer what it's like as they grow with us and give them more and more attention. So, to answer your question, yes. I think that customers. Our we are giving customers a lot more of that and a lot less on the reactive side. Like, oh look you, you can only call us when there's something wrong. So we're, we've looked at the entire customer base and really put a big push towards growing relationships and being incredibly customer centric. To your point, maybe regardless of the number of seats you have, or regardless of how many clouds you actually adopt at Microsoft, it's all about the customer is driving the decisions we're making for technology. If you ever listen to Satya or any of our executives talk or Amy Hood, our CFO they'll talk about it is the customer. It is the consumer too, but the, you know, for, from gaming perspective, but the customer on the enterprise, the business side, that's driving the need for the technology change. And so with that we do give back a lot of support. We do give them a lot of resources and there is a tipping point there where the minute they start again, engaging in more of those opportunities with us, they will kind of grow enough to be able to have some of the dedicated resources like I have on my team. So, yeah. So, so there's a trajectory there and there's a journey that we want them to go on with us.
Pat: 22:11
sure. That makes sense. Kyle, do you have anything to add to that?
Nicci: 22:13
yeah,
Kyle: 22:13
No, I'm just, I'm actually learning a whole lot about this whole situation right now. So I'm like, like super engrossed to what's going
Nicci: 22:20
gonna tell everybody bring, you know, bring on teams, put everything in the Azure cloud, come on over to Microsoft. We can service any size customer is the point. And we really can. I mean, truly there, there is something for everyone and and yeah I truly believe that their customer centricity and customer obsession is is unique in the industry.
Pat: 22:42
Yeah, I think that's a good point, cuz I mean, I'm not necessarily on the Microsoft side cuz obviously I'm a network guy, so I deal with more Cisco and and things of those natures, cuz where I'm at now is a complete Cisco shop for all of our infrastructure. But I've had the same experience with, you know, with the Ciscos and the Meraki's of the world. We get a dedicated sales guy, we get a dedicated tech rep. We get a dedicated, you know, X, Y, and Z. And If it's something that is just a question or if it's something that it's an issue, but it's not like burning front burner, I'll open a tech case with Cisco and let them do their thing. But like if the, if it's actually burning right, then I'm like, Hey guy, you know, it's like, I need help, like Right, this second, you know,
Nicci: 23:26
right.
Pat: 23:26
things of that nature. So I I think it's about getting quicker resolutions to problems rather than. I don't wanna say the formality cause the formality's good. Right? You have to have that paper trail to say, okay, look, you called in on, you know, July, you know, 21st at 4:00 PM with a problem. So then six months later it's, you know, have the same problem. It's documented. Somebody can look at that. But I think when you have issues that are sort of burning and you need somebody to reach out to and, you know, say you're a hospital, say you're a, whatever, you're an ISP, you're a bank, whatever. And something's down, you got people that it's either costing a lot of money or in some cases, some lives, you know, whatever the case may be. I think the quicker, the resolution is the thing that people, that these vendors are striving towards. I think it's a really good step moving forward of trying, you know, okay, you have a problem. Okay. You have a dedicated point person to do that. And then they sort of, you know, everybody's in a room either on like a crash call or whatever that, you know, case may be depending on the severity of your issue. But I think getting. Quicker resolutions is where things are going. I think it's a step in the right direction.
Nicci: 24:33
yes, it is. And customers expect it and they should, they absolutely should. You know, it needs to be fixed. It needs to be resolved. They can't run their business. That is exactly why you call support. And then, you know, if you need to tap your account manager or someone else to help and escalate and push things along, it's that's appropriate. And we do a lot of that, you know, even though, you know, we're there for other reasons, that's certainly a piece of what we do and wanna make sure the customer's having the best experience they
Pat: 24:57
Sure. Yeah. I think the customer experience and focusing on the positives has been really good the last couple of years and it's really paid off. And I think it was one of those, like the snowball sort of to roll sort of thing. So like one of the big guns started that and then the other big guns were like, wow, that's really good. We should do that. You know,
Nicci: 25:15
we should do that. Yeah. Let's be better at serving our customers. Yeah, exactly.
Pat: 25:20
Tell you, I, when I worked at evolve and I had to get on the horn
Nicci: 25:24
I know,
Pat: 25:25
Verizon or XO or level three, which I don't even XO in level three, aren't even around it anymore. They're, they've been folded into Verizon and lumen, I think. But like trying to get on the horn with them to say your circuit, isn't working and you have proof that their circuit isn't working. Like I remember my boss, Wally, like just getting on a phone and just. Hammering these people, like, I was just like, whoa, this is some next level stuff right here. But like, like it's so crazy to see how far we've come from. Like okay. Screaming at a guy at XO because a circuit is down or we can't get our gear up to now having three people in three different veins, a tied to just you and dedicated to you in that what six years, seven years
Nicci: 26:10
Yeah.
Pat: 26:11
CRA crazy progress.
Nicci: 26:12
Yeah, I agree. Yes. I'm happy to be part of that and see that transition in the industry. That's
Pat: 26:17
there you go. Look at that. I like it. I think that's good. So I guess my next question and Kyle, if you have anything, just jump in. I guess my next question is like, where do you see. Your piece of the industry going, like, I know cloud is the big one right now. Right. Everybody's talking cloud. Right. You gotta have some sort of facet of the cloud, whether that's your dev environment or whatever, you know what, like, I'm a big proponent of putting things into cloud that makes sense to put them there. Like, I don't think, I don't think people should rush to put everything in the cloud in 16 months and call it a day. It depends on your business and how it runs and what your actual business needs are. I think, like I said, I think a test environment or a dev environment throw that up there all day long. No one really cares. I just say no one cares about it, but it's not, you know, not as mission it's a playground in most environments to, you know, like a dev. Right. So throw that up there. I, you know, why does that need to take, you know, storage and compute in your data center, you know, on your brick and mortar data center, stop. Just throw it up there.
Nicci: 27:16
Just throw it up
Pat: 27:16
Yeah. I think hybrid is a good one, right? I think hybrid a lot of people like, like the idea of a feel brick and mortar data center, where something is down, you can go there, you have the control because you have storage locally. You have compute locally. Like whether you're doing it VMware, I mean, most of the market, VMware, you know, who are we kidding? You know, whether you have chassis and all this kind of stuff at your brick and mortar you know, but I think the cloud is making a. Piece of that because of the ease of things. And especially now, because I can't get gear to save my soul. It is so hard to get physical gear right
Nicci: 27:51
supply chain.
Pat: 27:52
insanity.
Nicci: 27:53
be a problem for a while. Yeah, I,
Pat: 27:56
I just feel like the hybrid is the way to go because you have the best of both worlds. It's super easy to tie your on-prem and your cloud environment together nowadays through various mediums, SD wan or, you know, whatever. I feel like it's a huge, it's way easier than it used to be. Right.
Nicci: 28:14
it is.
Pat: 28:14
I'm curious to see your point of like, okay, how, you know, your role is actually, you know, where is it progressing to? Where do you see people going? Is it more of a hybrid rather than on-prem and sticking things in the cloud where they make sense? What are you seeing there?
Nicci: 28:30
yeah. So a couple things, I mean, yes. I think hybrids and hybrid, but also hybrid across, it's not even the word vendor it's across providers or, you know, really it's a multi-cloud strategy, right? So there's an on-prem piece of that and that might be true for customers in, you know, finance might be, it's certainly true for customers in government, right there. There's no way that you can expect a government agency to put everything in the cloud. It's a, it's just. It's gonna be so costly to do it. There's so much data. There's so much information that needs to be moved and supported, and some of the systems just won't migrate. So, so it makes sense for some of those to stay on Preem I think the hybrid is the way to go. And honestly, multi-cloud strategy, meaning multi-vendor multi provider is the way to go. You know, certainly platform as a service is a big piece of that. How do I fit my, to your point? How do I fit those things together? And I think that's kind of what we're seeing. So while a customer may be spending I don't know, 10, 20% of their. Eligible it budget on Microsoft. The rest of it is definitely supporting something on prem. It's definitely supporting some other vendors and application providers. It just doesn't stop there. So do you wanna take a little bit more of that market share in that addressable market? Absolutely. So maybe I can get another five, 10% for my cloud. Sure. But then the rest of those those business propositions need to be supported elsewhere. So, you know, it cannot be one provider. All in the cloud, that's just not sustainable. It's not a good idea. And it would just cost too much. That being said, there are plenty of migrations that you wouldn't believe still need to happen. Right. I'm sure you see this, like, especially from a network perspective, how many times do you go into someone's environment? You're like, wow, you guys haven't migrated that yet. So I think you do have to have a really smart, sharp it strategy and roadmap and what we're doing and to answer your questions or the trending has been okay, let's take a time out and really just do an assessment across the customer's business. Where are the applications living? Where are the hosting? You know, what does their network look like? What does their infrastructure actually offer? How can we fit pieces into the cloud? How quickly can we migrate? How expensive will it be? And then what needs to stay on prem? And then how do we support that? And I think that's. Very complex and there's many facets to that, but but that's one piece of it to answer your question. And then the other piece of it is, you know, from our perspective in account management, we, as I was saying earlier, we have the ability to then say, okay. Wow. All right. So you started out with these with M 365, let's say we have nothing else with us. Okay. Now you're gonna bring a few workloads into Azure and we're gonna start supporting some of that business. Well, what does that mean? Well, I probably need to brush up on some of the applications that you're running. Okay, great. So then you can see where the position, at least in my world can really grow into being more technical. It could be more advisory. It could be more product or solution driven, you know, around Azure. Like I was saying before, or I could go a different direction and provide the customer more of like a portfolio management style. So I think for us, our position Will really continue to grow. Our role has endless possibilities. People can go into solution based. They could be, they can do a vertical, whether it be healthcare government you know, media like I'm in. So that's sort of limitless, which is like, like I said is super exciting. But yeah, I think you nailed it. I think it's hybrid. I think it's multi-cloud, I think it's multi-vendor and I think there's room for everyone. Right. And we just have to kind of learn to play together and use partners and leverage the relationships people have with some of these partners to bring the technology companies together, to support a customer's journey. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing and that's how things are trending.
Pat: 32:15
I think that's a good point. I think the multi-cloud is gonna be huge. Right? So in the last three jobs I've had, they've used the big three, right? They've one is used Azure. One is used AWS and one is used GCP. Right? So I think the multi-cloud is gonna be huge. Right. Especially if you are a cloud only. Place, like if you don't have a brick and mortar data center anywhere you and you're all in, let's say Azure you know, you're gonna need, you gonna need to take a flyer on an AWS as maybe just use it as a Dr. Right. If anything, use it as a Dr. Say, okay, look, if all of Azure is having issues that day, no matter what region you're in you're kind of hobbling along on one foot. That has happened. Right. So I think that's, I think the multi-cloud is good. I think blending those clouds, even though they're different you know, stamps right on your bill, right. Different names and different stamps. They both prov, or they all provide the same flexibility and what you're trying to. To accomplish. I, but I think you're right. I think there's room for everybody. This I, you know, tech is certainly not slowing now in anytime soon. It's not going backwards. If anything, it's accelerating at, you know, James web telescope speed. So, you know,
Nicci: 33:24
I love that. Right. Right.
Pat: 33:26
it's just
Nicci: 33:27
Well, that's the thing.
Pat: 33:28
It's just insane on how much is. So is just out there at your fingertips and you need you're right. You need to have a strategy cuz if you just start throwing things at the wall, sort of willy-nilly you're, you don't see the, you tend not to see the big picture and then you're you down the road you're in front of a concrete wall and you gotta take three steps back anyway because you didn't account for something. Right. So I think that's where, you know, your team comes into play or anybody's cloud account team to say, okay, look, step back. What are you trying to do? Let's look at it. Big picture. So you don't have, so you don't get 90% of your company working into a, working into the cloud and then come across a roadblock and you have to rip the bandaid off,
Nicci: 34:08
That's right. And that's exactly right. I think the thing too and some of our executives at Microsoft talk about this, like the competition is going to be there, so you can try to just continually compete and it's not gonna work. You have to work with sometimes what they already have, or again, the notion that there's relationships in place or there's reasons why other providers, other clouds would be appropriate for that particular again, application or whatever. It's. So it's better to work together. Then to try to fight this you know, because none of us are going away. We're only, yes, we're getting more market share. We're getting better. We're servicing our customers, but that's really been the mentality and strategy. And I think even at evolved, by the way we felt that way too. You know, we represented many companies in that portfolio by the time you and I left. And it was always like, okay, well, if you're gonna use this vendor or partner for this, we can actually help and fill it, fill another gap and let us help you with that. So I think the partner community Microsoft in particular, in our world is extremely valuable because these partners are seeing. All the application vendors, they're seeing all the network vendors, they're seeing all the software providers and we're all sort of fighting for the same thing. And it's like, actually, there's really room for all of you. There really truly is. There's so much to do that. I think that's really what you wanna end up focusing on and where can we be best served with the customer? What do we do best? How can we be the most helpful instead of just trying to, you know, sort of fight against the fact that we didn't win a contract over a competitor, it's just not valuable. It's, you know, you're worth more than the competitor conversation. Exactly. Right?
Pat: 35:46
Yeah. And honestly, I think. You know, the more competition there is in the market, right? The better it is for customers like us, right. Competition drives price down and it grows innovation within those particular companies to drive to do better. So price comes down, your service gets better, you know, and you get more innovation out of that. So I think the, you know, Hey, the more competition, the better that just helps, you know, end customers like me. So that's just, you know, that's just what it is. So now that was really good. That, that was really cool. And then sort of, kind of changing gears here a little bit, like if you're I don't wanna say the tail end of your evolved career you know, probably somewhere in the middle you did a thing, you did a thing
Nicci: 36:23
I did a thing. Yes, I did a big thing actually.
Pat: 36:27
Yes. I
Nicci: 36:27
Yes I
Pat: 36:28
And you started a is it a nonprofit? Is it a company? Like what? Okay, so it is. a nonprofit.
Nicci: 36:34
It's an official, you got it. It's an official nonprofit.
Pat: 36:37
nonprofit. It is called tech aware. And that the idea there was to get more people, or I should say more women involved in raising awareness, educated women, that sort of thing to get in on the careers in it and through, you know, through various avenues. Right. So volunteer, work mentorships things of that nature. So, that really kind of, you know, spoke out to me and I was like, wow, that's really cool. don't you touch on that a little bit and kind of do a better job at explaining it than I just did. So
Nicci: 37:08
Oh, no, you were great. This is perfect. I love what you said. And anything goes because you know, any any support we can get, we love. So thank you for recognizing it. And yes, it is called tech aware. We are called tech aware and I'll give you the Genesis really, which is that one of the executives at evolve. And I had worked together for so long, obviously at evolve and the prior company that evolve had that we all worked at in the late nineties was a telecommunications company called ATX anyway. So we were there together. So we had lot of history and he'd seen me grow up in this industry, which by the way, I had no training on no education on no background, no knowledge that I would ever be in tech. When I went into college, it wasn't even something I thought I would do. I didn't even really know what it was. So anyway I, he and I were just, you know, chatting over the course of working together and he was like, you know, There's a lot going on with women in tech. And I'm like, I know, and how do I do this? And how do you're always mentoring someone or someone's coming to you, it for advice. And I'd be like, yeah, you too. I mean, you're so instrumental in supporting women being leaders, which he was and many people at evolve for not just this one person, but he is the person who helped me to decide to do it and give me the courage to do it. So together we went down this path of organizing some of the women at evolve. Not all of them were leaders. Some were just in individual contributor roles which was perfectly fine. And we got together and we formed a group. We sort of did it unofficially almost as it wasn't a club, but almost as a, you know, a sidekick and said, you know, kind of powered by evolve. We've got this group of women. And then it, we thought, you know, well, why don't we just make it official? Like we, we love evolve and it's wonderful here, but we may not stay here forever. And this isn't just an evolve thing. This is a thing for. All of us. And yes, specifically we do cater to women who have a tendency to be a little bit underrepresented in this particular industry. It's getting a lot better. But we are, and we were, so he said we should open a nonprofit. I'm like, you're right. So we raised a little bit of money and we had some pro bono work given to us, which was very generous from some of the other executives that evolve. And we started a nonprofit in 2018. So we've been op open and alive for four years. Survived COVID, which was pretty amazing very slim group of women and one. Same person. I'm speaking of one male on our board. We're a working board. We raise a tiny bit of money every year to help us with our events and you know, just support any efforts and things we need to buy just to function. So we're on a tight budget, but our goal is our mission is to raise awareness. As you said, for women. Of all ages on their options for a career in tech. So this could be a woman who is already in tech and wants to advance, maybe get into leadership or do something a little bit different or change roles, which is not easy to do in tech. Any industry, but specifically in tech and it all, or it could be a woman or some, someone on the, you know, early stage of their career who doesn't even know how to get into tech and through mentorship programs that we offer and different events that we do. We bring people together to match them up, give them someone to help them along. And it has been very rewarding and we have, I don't actually have all the data points in front of me. I probably should. But you know, let's say out of the 10 or 20 women that we were able to work with in a short period of time at least five to seven of them, each time we work with them, we'll either find a job move forward in some way, or make some decisions that have impacted their career, which is so rewarding for all of us. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool.
Pat: 40:41
Yeah. That's really
Nicci: 40:42
Yeah, we're
Pat: 40:42
Yeah. So I guess, can we say the guy's name on here? Do you think you'd care? I don't know.
Nicci: 40:47
I think we could say his name and then why don't I can ask him if he's okay to be on it and you would edit it out if we need
Pat: 40:53
Yeah, that's fine.
Nicci: 40:54
But yeah, so, so yeah, so guy far. Is actually one of our board members and one of the co-founders and he has been supportive of us, you know, from day one and still very active has introduced us and helped us network and we've gained access to places like Westchester university. One of our other board members, Jill ALSK, she's our vice president. She has us getting in front of Widener university coming up in the fall. And I'll give you guys these dates so we can certainly let the world know what's going on. We'll be speaking at these schools in their tech centers to talk to women about what they need to do to you know, to move themselves forward. And here's what happens. What happens is a lot of times women, young girls in middle school, high school will be interested in something tech related. It could even be a stem program. And sadly, what can happen is for various reasons they may not stay in the program or they may finish the program. But then actually not gain employment in what it is they just learned or a degree that they just got. And there's a lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of research around this, you know, we could talk about that maybe next time but what happens is they fall out. So what we're trying to do in a very grassroots approach is just keep them there, you know, just encourage them to stay there and show them what they can do to get the foot in the door, put the toe in the water and you. Grab a position that might be open and just get an entry point into a company. Now, some of the stem programs and some of these, you know, tech centers at, you know, Westchester and even Widener, of course, they're really good because they actually do help these women get placed in programs and jobs. So, so they're doing great job there, but so, so they're actually, we're gonna help them just solidify that and, you know, Polish up the messaging and help them grow their programs. And those women are probably gonna be the ones that help us go into the middle schools and the high schools and keep these girls interested in tech. You know, that's really where we need to focus and you know, and actually on the other end of the career is sort of at the later stage, maybe when women are looking for a change or maybe they're, I dunno, they're having families or things are changing in their lives, even if they are single and get married or just whatever dynamic they go through, whatever life that happens. We often find that maybe what they entered into is not where they wanna end up. So now how do they advance? How do they ask for promotions? How do they realize the pay scale that they should be getting you know, titles and recognition, awards, things like that. So, so it can, there can be some gender work that we do, although we're not really focused or driven by that. It is a reality of what we do. And we have to deal with workplace dynamics as well and help women navigate some of those situations. And vice versa, by the way, we've mentored men who have had this similar struggles, like, well, how do I do this? Like, what do I do with my resume? How do I do my LinkedIn profile? So we even get down to brass tax when it comes to stuff like that, just to help people to have a better presence in what is really a virtual world. It's really hard to stand out these days. Especially if you're not in person as much as we used to be.
Pat: 44:01
Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think this podcast and you're in tech aware are very much aligned as far as trying to help people, trying to get to that, you know, core audience of, okay. You know, middle school, high school, you know, college career develop. Department, right? For lack of better word, say, Hey, you know, Hey, you know, get in there and say, Hey, we have this podcast, you know, we're here to help, you know, tech people. Now, whether that, you know, that academic department of college career development department, whatever they call it now, whether they pass it along down to professors that teach set courses, that's a different story, but at least that's a foot in the door and I think everyone on this show would agree that there is just there's enough work for everybody. It's just what it is. Right. So, you know, there, the work is not there. There's no shortage of work going around. So, and like I said We're very involved in Twitter and that's where most of our kind of crowd hangs, you know, at the water cooler, that kind of thing. But it's very, you know, there's a lot of women now getting into tech cybersecurity is a huge field for women. Like they're really starting to really kind of kick butt in that aspect. So, you know, whether that's a pen tester, whether that's, you know, red team, blue team purple team, whatever, like I just see a lot of women just in networking field security field you know, trying to get those certifications and, you know, just kind of climb that ladder, but it's much more prevalent now than what it was cuz you know, Kyle and I went to college together. Right. And. and so, you know, I don't know about you, Kyle, but I remember that there was a few women in some of our Cisco courses and whatnot at various points. And then just like, like one day they just weren't there. And I was just like, oh, alright. Just like one less person, like in the class. But like it's, you know, now looking back at them, like, that's, that, that really sucks. It's like, ah, man.
Nicci: 45:49
might have actually experienced yeah. What I was saying. Well, and you know what, and this other thing is there's a lot of women doing you know, low code, no code entry points into programming and things like that. And application development. I mean, think about GitHub being this, you know, open platform and many others, by the way, you know that where you can just, developers can just go and do stuff. The thing is there's a lot of women who can do that from home. Right. And they can have a family, they can do these things and they can learn so quickly now because the entry point is it's not that it's easier, but it's accessible. And that's what we wanna do. We make, wanna make all of this accessible to everyone. And it's again, not just about women, but certainly that is our focus. You know, as a woman in tech and as a mom of three and a career woman, it's been very hard at times, for me to even, it's not about being promoted or doing more. I was gonna do that anyway. Maybe some recognition or just navigating situations too. I mean, it's such a big topic for us. Like how do I do this? How do I say this? How do I advocate for myself? I think that's probably true in any industry, but in our industry in particular, a lot of times the credentials go to the people who have the technical chops or the expertise and believe it or not, a lot of women have that. They just don't know how to express it or portray it. Yeah.
Pat: 47:05
no, that's a good
Nicci: 47:05
yeah, so we do a lot of that.
Pat: 47:07
no, I think I think that's really good as far as what you're sort of, you know, building there and you have a women wine and tech events that you do.
Nicci: 47:14
Yes. Oh yeah.
Pat: 47:15
particularly interested in that one. Yeah.
Nicci: 47:17
Okay. Yes, you should. You should definitely come to the next one. So, oh yeah. So, so really what ended up happening? Thank you for highlighting that what ended up happening was when we sort of launched tech aware, we were like, okay, let's make this like a big thing. And as you said, you know, evolve was very a very fun open culture. And we did have a lot of events, you know, for partners, customers, whatever. So, so we decided to essentially celebrate and kind of open up and show everybody who we were by having a women wine and tech event, which case what we did was, and again, same person, you know, who helped us start? The organization, happens to be a Somali, very interested in wine and food. And he was like, listen, I can do some wine pairings and you guys can talk about tech and what it's like to be a woman. And you know, all of these great things we could talk about what you know, how to help them advance their careers. And we could have a great night of it. And we did that the first time we, oh my goodness. I think it was 2018. It would've been when we first launched check aware, I think we invited, I wanna say 250 women in the region. And we had like 150 show up at, you know, we had a pretty big office, but it, I mean, it wasn't that huge. So, you know, we filled the whole you know, reception and kitchen area and conference room, and that was super fun. So we had, you know, seven wines, different regions, they're mostly women owned or operated or Wineries, you know, where women were actually running the organization or had founded the winery, which was really great. So, so women sourced seven worldwide wines and it was incredible. So they were like, okay, we're gonna come back for more. Well, what came out of that was our mentorship program, our relationship with tech girls, which is an organization that we work with almost every weekend. We staff and offer workshops for middle school girls. And by the way, this is specific to middle school girls offering them workshops Related to technology and they do everything from programming to podcasting to, you know, gaming and all kinds of things. It's great. They're about two and a half hours long and they need instructors. So they were like, okay, let's partner up. This would be really great. You guys could be one of our premier, you know, instructor led groups. So we started doing those and that led to other organizations asking us to participate in some of their events as well. So, so women went in tech was sort of our like signature event. And then we did it again and did the same thing and blew it outta the water, you know, invited, you know, two, 300 people had another 175 show up. And that was really great. And that year in 2019 was right before COVID. So it was like literally two months before COVID hit. And that particular time was really instrumental because we realized that. We could do a lot more in one evening than we could do in weeks of work networking that happened that night was incredible. And what we ended up noticing was we kind of made it like a career fair where people could stop at different tables with different partners and get support from resume building LinkedIn profile to financial planning to again, volunteer opportunities. So we actually kind of made it more of like a career fair if you will, and had the wine tasting along with that. And that was great. And then I was lucky enough this year as a new employee at Microsoft to have their support of using their technology center. We didn't actually go inside the tech center. It was actually up in, you know, in the sort of open areas at their Malvern, Pennsylvania location. And they let us use the space for no charge, which was great. And we did the same thing. And this year we did it in March and we offered headshots, we hired a photographer and there were 120 people, 79 head shots were done that night in, within like two hours. And I mentioned that type of stuff, because again how can we give back just from a very grassroots perspective and that's how we can do it. You know, we, you come in, you enjoy the night with us. You have some wine, you talk to different people about what, you know, what you might need and, you know, doing headshots for people that can use it on their LinkedIn profile or Twitter or. Instagram or whatever they can do to help promote themselves. I mean, people don't have the time and the money to do that kind of stuff. So, so we did that and then we had resume building like actively there that night working on resumes. And we had a group of women come to us from temple university asking us to do the same thing with their career fair in the fall. So it's just the amount of work that can come out of just one night's event is just fantastic. And so I'll end with this. What ended up happening was the. One of the regional vice presidents was there, which I didn't expect from Microsoft that night. They happened to have an all day meeting in one of the offices and they stayed for a couple of hours to check out the event. And, you know, they didn't really know me that well because I'm a new employee and they're like, oh, let's check this out. Let's see what's going on. And I kind of walked through with them and ended up gaining, you know, provisional approval to essentially have Microsoft do this with tech aware starting this fall and we will take it to four cities. We're gonna do it in DC. We'll do it in Boston. We'll do it in New York city. And again, here in Malor, which is just spectacular. So we're working on the details of that. Yeah. We have, you know, a lot of work to do to kind of get that launched, but we'll take this across four cities in the Northeast region and have Microsoft kind of sponsor it with us, which is spectacular.
Pat: 52:34
That's phenomenal. And here's my shameless plug. If you need Kyle and I's help in any
Nicci: 52:39
We do
Pat: 52:40
let us know. We
Kyle: 52:41
yeah,
Nicci: 52:42
please come and help us because we are, again, yes, we are a non-profit and you know, we toy with the idea. We, one time we did charge tickets we charged a price for the ticket to help us, you know, kind of cover costs. We may or may not do that again. It just sort of depends on how many sponsors we get. You know, people wanna donate wine, people wanna donate food. So we gotta work through all those details, but we do need help. I mean, we really physically just need like labor, but we also need people to help. You know, sort of usher around that night and help people make sure they visited all the booths, they visited all the partners. They didn't get enough out of the night, you know, did you try this wine? Can I take you over to the finance table? Can I help you get your headshot? Like just all that kind of stuff, because it's a really busy event and everyone's just kind of giving, you know, their time and energy and you know, we just sort of all pull together and do it. And there's really only five of us who organize these things. So, so yes, we're looking to expand our committee for sure. And we will need some strength and some willingness to be on your feet for a few hours. I'd love to have you guys help us in Malvern. So it's only like an hour from you, so you could totally come
Pat: 53:40
I have an office in Malvern. I can work there for the day and then just meet you down there. So it's all
Nicci: 53:44
Done. You guys are in. Yeah. So thank you for that. And we'll we'll definitely, we need to be a little bit more active on Twitter than we are now, but we'll definitely do some promotional stuff and really start, I'd say at the end of August, we'll start pushing out, you know, a lot of our notifications and start looking to, you know, get our tickets and registrations going. Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting.
Pat: 54:05
All speaking of that, we're right around the hour, mark, which is kind of where we like to keep this just for brevity's sake, but where can people find either you tech aware or things of that nature, plug your socials. Go for it.
Nicci: 54:15
Thank you. Awesome. Okay. So definitely check us out. We're tech aware.tech. techaware.tech. And when you're on the site, just click the contact us button and all those emails actually come to me directly, or our vice president. And we personally answer every, you know, email or conversation that comes our way on Instagram, which is actually relatively larger for us right now than Twitter. You gotta help me with the Twitter stuff. We're at tech aware underscore. So altogether techaware_ and on Twitter, we're at techaware01.
Pat: 54:49
There you go. Look at that
Nicci: 54:50
and see us.
Pat: 54:51
and for anybody's. Oh, absolutely. If anybody's interested in their socials, Nicci and tech aware, they'll all be in the show notes of this episode. So it's one easy click keep an eye out on our Twitter. We'll certainly plug their stuff. That's phenomenal. So, Nicci, this has been awesome. Really? This has been so, so cool. I, appreciate, yeah, it's good. It's good to be seen. Right?
Nicci: 55:11
to
Pat: 55:11
the
Nicci: 55:11
you, Kyle. Yes. It's good to be
Kyle: 55:13
It's good to meet
Nicci: 55:14
I love your backgrounds, you know? Hey, I'm on teams every day. Right. So backgrounds are like a big thing for us and I didn't, I was in here. I was like, okay, there's no background. This is real. Like you see me in my little box that I'm in every day. Yeah. So, no, you guys have been amazing. Thanks for the support and the constant you know, just love and care that you've given me over the years. I really appreciate it. And I'd love to come back, you know, when we have more to share about the event and other things that we're doing and spend some more time with you
Pat: 55:38
Yeah, absolutely. This has been awesome, Nicci, thanks really appreciate you coming out
Nicci: 55:42
so much.
Pat: 55:43
and telling the world what you're doing. This is awesome. And yeah. Let us know when you are going to, yeah. You get a little closer to details and stuff worked that we'll certainly we'll plug it here. We'll plug it on our socials. So wherever we can help, we can certainly help and, you know, maybe get a body down there or whatever, or, you know, use our little bit of our influence that we have in the world to certainly do some good, but. Yeah, it's been awesome. So, all right, everybody, we're gonna get outta here. Absolutely. We're gonna get outta here this week. Thanks again to Nicci for joining. This has been fantastic. Thanks for joining this week on breaking down the bites podcast. Make sure you check out tech aware, like we said, tech aware.tech. They're also on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, all that stuff will be in the show notes with direct links. So you don't miss them tech girls as well. That'll be in, in our show notes as well. Cause they're a partner over there with Nicci and tech aware. So they're really doing some great things out there in the space. So check out our website. breakingbytespod.io. You can subscribe to the show, right from there. We have every link that you could possibly think of iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Google podcasts, or if you just need a plain RSS feed, we have those there too. Throw us a radio on iTunes. That'd be awesome. We always like the ratings and the the little stars that they that they give us. That's always makes us feel warm, and fuzzy. So it's all good there. Or simply tell friend, right? The word of mouth works just as good nowadays in detective of a world that we all seem to be living and sometimes drowning in. Right. So I think we would agree with that. Word of mouth is is just as good sometimes even better. So, again, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff will be in the show notes for us. The discord server that we have that's out there, the invites in the show notes. So come say hello, and that's gonna be it, Kyle. Thanks, man. It's been awesome. Really good, Nicci as always. Good to see you and we'll be in touch for some further cool stuff. So you never know. So stay tuned to everybody and we'll see everybody next.
Nicci: 57:25
Thanks. Take care. Bye guys.