Episode 32: Office Politics, Don’t Fall for Them
Office politics are a hazard of the job. It's dirty, exhausting, and can lead to some really toxic environments. This week we take a look at how to recognize them, and some strategies on how to avoid them!
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Pat: 0:31
Hey everybody. Welcome back to a brand new episode of breaking down the bites, podcasts as usual. I'm your host, pat, you can find me on Twitter @layer8packet. That's the number eight. You can find Kyle on Twitter. @danath256, you can find the show on Twitter @breakinbytespod. We're pretty active on Twitter. So come say hello. All of our socials will be listed in the show notes. So pop on over and follow us on your social of choice. Hey Kyle, back another week doing our thing. How you doing buddy?
Kyle: 1:02
Mu much better. It's not. So, uh, swampy hot melty outside weather finally broke, so that's nice.
Pat: 1:08
It's true. It was nice. It was very, it was pleasant today. I must say the weather was not hell's gate, so
Kyle: 1:14
right.
Pat: 1:15
That helps
Kyle: 1:16
yeah. I was able to go out to get the mail and the soles of my shoes didn't melt to the driveway. So that's a plus.
Pat: 1:22
There you go. That's it. Rock and roll. So, yeah, so we are back for another episode awesome episode last week with. Great dude. Very insightful. So if you guys haven't checked that one out, go and check that one out right after this episode. Of course. Again, this one's gonna be fresh and new. We're. We're sort of, I don't wanna say tweaking the show a little bit, but this episode's gonna be a little different, I guess, a little less. Technical a little more softer side of things and environment wise as far as where you're at your career and, you know, the company you work for Kyle, you had a good one talk about some office politics and how to try to stay outta some of those. Precarious positions, I should say with office politics and maybe give some of our experiences with various office politics and some just, you know, cuz there's a ton of places out there that just that, that have them they're ingrained in their culture and it just, it's a huge. Mentality suck. At least for me, it was so we'll get your thoughts on that one, Kyle, but no, I thought it was a, that was a good topic and we're gonna talk some office politics and try to stay out of the hairy areas.
Kyle: 2:27
Sounds good. Well, you know, it's like there's culture EV every place, you know, kind of deal like that. Some's good. Some's bad. You could definitely find yourself on a slippery slope of getting sucked into the nonsense. But if it's good too, you know, like maybe that's a thing that you wanna be involved in. And it kind of sucks that it's a game that you have to play and like something you have to balance. Cuz at least every place that I've been so far. Some kind of politicing going on, somebody's doing something this way, that way, trying to advance step up, down and stuff. And you know, just run through some of the, what we've seen, our experience and kind of go from there.
Pat: 3:09
Yeah, no, that's a good one. I've been at a few places that have the political game was pretty strong. And I, me personally, I think if you listen to the show and Kyle, you definitely know this, cause you've known me for a good part of 20 years now, which is kind of depressing to say, but, you know, cuz we're only 25 Kyle, so I don't know how that works, but you know, if you listen to this show for a while, you kind of know. My mentality of what you see is what you get. And I'm very straightforward. I. Like the politics of it. I'm very structured in that manner. As far as like, look, I'm just here to do the best I can to put my best skills forward and, you know, be the best employee I can be. And, you know, using my experience to say, okay, look, it's worked well this way. It's not worked well this way, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you know, me personally, I think climbing the ladder and I should. Office politics plays a large part in climbing the ladder. Cuz I feel like people hire other people that they necessarily, that they like personally, but maybe not be the best fit for the job. And then. The people that get looked over or whatever you know, kind of grow that chip on their shoulder and, you know, a year later they're out the door and, you know, looking for better opportunities. But I'm very straightforward in that. I don't like the politics game. I'm here to do a job, you know, not to say that I'm not a team player or anything, but it's like, look, I'm here to do a job. I know that sounds dry, but it is what it is. And here to do a job, do the best I can. And I expect to. You know, rewarded in time, right. For that, you know, dedication that I show, you know, to the company. So, it's very hard for me to kind of play the political game. I'm not good at it. I will admit that I actually suck at it. I'll just put that out there in the ether right now. I'm not I really do suck at it. I, you know, I don't play well with that. You know, and I've actually been told. Too nice. In some aspects of like, oh no, you gotta stand up for yourself. You gotta tell people, you know, you gotta draw boundaries and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, look, man, I just wanna, I wanna, you know, I wanna help everyone. I can. And that's it. But you know, if you don't sort of set boundaries and. Draw a line in the sand. You do, you get walked all over in some aspects and it's just not a very good, not a very good feeling. Cause then you're getting walked all over almost daily or, you know, whatever, depending on. Quote, unquote toxic. The culture is it could be daily and then you just, you wear out mentally and you're just like, oh this really sucks. And you don't really know, you know where to go. So, yeah, I'm not good at it. I don't like to be good at it. And thankfully I'm at a place now where my boss does a lot of that. Like, he shields a lot of that from us, from me and the other guy on my team. So, we don't see a lot of it, so we can basically just focus on our jobs. You know, kind of making the hamster wheel still turned at the end of the day. So, that's all good. So shout out to my boss, Dave. So he's really good at that.
Kyle: 6:07
Yeah, kind of along the same lines though, you know, like obviously you want to do well at your job. You wanna be a good performer top performer. And kind of do the best you can, but you have to watch like, you know, cuz if you're the nice guy and you wanna help people and you wanna get stuff done, they'll be like, well, pat will do it. Let's just ask pat, pat will do it and pat will do it. And then the next thing you know, you're like I put in like 55, 60 hours this week, I'm doing other people's jobs and stuff. And then it just kind of becomes part of the daily.
Pat: 6:42
Yep.
Kyle: 6:43
Until you burn out and you're like, you know, so it's crazy cuz you have to watch that stuff too, but you don't wanna be like the unapproachable guy be like, no, you know, like I'm not helping you, you know, do it yourself. So,
Pat: 6:56
funny. Shout out to my man Dean, because I, I distinctly remember having this conversation or having a similar conversation on a previous podcast of, you know, of it burnout. And that was a real early episode. So, and he's like, you know what? He goes, I love the word. No, I tell everybody no is like the top of my vocabulary. Damn bro. Like, you know, but no shout out to he's he loves to say no and, but he's right. You have to set a boundary or else you're just gonna be swimming all day long and drink it through a fire hose. So it's tough. You gotta set your boundaries, know when to do it, but again, you have to be approachable. But in this day and age it's like, look, you gotta be approachable. You gotta do it the right way. There's a. If there's a right and a wrong way to do it, I usually choose the right way or I usually choose the wrong way. Cuz I have zero patience when it comes to that stuff. So it's hard for me to like shut my mouth and it's gotten me in trouble a few times, but yeah, who knows, but but yeah it's, there's an interesting dynamic there and each company is different that you're gonna work for. Because it's the politics play. A game of okay. Who gets where and, you know, and how they get there. Right. So I don't know. I don't know about you, but I've had a few bosses that don't understand, like what, I've, what I do on a day to day basis. So like, for them to like play the political game and still like, You know me, right. overlook me for either that promotion or that next step or that more responsibility without them knowing what I did day to day was a very hard pill to, to swallow. So it feels like there's more and more of that in today's age of, you know, non-technical people leading. Technical people and it just it's a, it just doesn't work. It never does. And it's just an ugly thing and people get burned out and then you're, you know, you're you, that position is a constant revolving door. So, you know, I would just say, you know, go in there, head down, do your thing, be nice to people, do your work, but set your boundaries. You have to know where. You know, know when to say no and it's okay to say no and kind of go, you know, go from there. And I think that comes apart with, you know, building positive work relationships too. Right. So it's easier to deal with the corporate politics when you have a good support system around you, right. When you're, when you and your colleagues are on the same. You're in the same boat paddling in the same direction. Right. It's easier to deal with the corporate politics above you when you have, you know, a good team around you you know, the friendships that you guys make and whatnot you know, kind of goes far, right? So at Oxford, I'll tell a little story, but I worked here at a local. Cable company here for seven years. So right outta college, or actually during college, and then out of college, I worked tech support for a local cable company. So I was doing like cable modem, tech support, that kind of stuff. And like I said, I was there seven years and most of those years were in in the call center, you know, Basically, you know, taking calls and I remember like I used to challenge myself to take, like, I see if I could break like 70 calls a day. Right. So if you did like, right. So for all you, you know, for all you math aholic out there, if you're doing, you know, if you're working an eight hour day and you're taking 70 calls a day, right. So that's just do a quick math here. That's, you know, that's eight, that's over eight and a half calls an hour. Depending on what the issue is. You could really be busting through those things or, you know, that sort of thing. So, anyway, so I was working at the thing and they, that, that place had some politic issues cuz it was like family owned. So like, like nepotism was just running wild to that place. So you really had to watch who you talk to and it's like, oh my God, this is just, oh God. But anyway but. You know, and then they had an opening for their underground construction department. So like laying new cables and new developments and, you know, things of that nature. So I was like, oh, cool. Like get outta the office. Like she gets some decent work in blah, blah, blah. And it, the pay was good at that time too. And then I got teamed up. Like my partner was like this crotchety old man that was like ready to retire. And like, he just hated me. He did not like me at all. So. It was just not a good mix. And again, I was young and I was nice to him and whatnot, but again, he walked all over me and then one day he was just like, all right, I've had enough. And he went into the boss and was like, yeah, this kid's not working out. And without any sort of, you know, without any sort of verification, if I was, or wasn't, he didn't ask, you know, the boss didn't any other teammates or anything like that, he just came like, I remember calling him cause I was telling him I was gonna be late. That. I had to do, I forget what the hell I was doing. And he's like, oh, goes that this just isn't working out. So when you get back, when you get here, just report to the office. And I was just like, what? Like, he just fired me over the phone. Like, where the fuck. So it was just this weird, like, I don't know. And then, like, I was just bitter. I was so bitter after that, I was like, You know, screw this guy, you know, that kind of thing. So, yes. And then a year later I was editor. I went to go work at the data center. So, but it was very, you know, but I stayed seven years because I liked the people that I worked. The people in the call center were great. Like we went out, like we used to hit the casino, like every, you know, couple, every couple of weeks, like, you know, we were freshly, you know, 21. So like at that time, Kyle, the casino was just brand new, you know? So we were like, yeah, fresh coat of paint and a bunch of alcohol and gambling. Let's go, you know, that kind of thing. But yeah, we go or like people had a birthday party or whatever that, you know, we'd go out for drinks and you know, this and that. So I stayed because I liked the people. that I worked with and I've probably stayed a little too long. But those loyalties and those friendships go a long way. Right. It sort of masks some of that, oh, this job really sucks, you know, that sort of thing. But you know, it is what it is. And, you know, the point of that story was, you know, having a decent support network underneath you will kind of carry you through a lot of it. And it helps you deal with some of the corporate BS that, that goes on above you. So, I dunno, Kyle, do you have any other thoughts there?
Kyle: 13:11
Well, I will say with that, you know, I've been in a similar situation where like, because you're in the suck with a bunch of your like buddies, coworkers kind of deal like that. It makes it bearable. And I don't know if that's like trauma bonding or some sort of like, you're like, we've all been in the, in held together. So like, it's fine. We can make it through that's not necessarily amazing, but it Def it makes it better.
Pat: 13:39
Yeah. Yeah, no, I get you. I get you. Yeah, you're right. It is a bonding thing, cuz they're like, they're going through the same. Messy stuff that you are, you know, it's like, oh he can relate because he just got that talking to last week and
Kyle: 13:52
you're right,
Pat: 13:53
to this week. Oh, this really sucks. Oh, let's go drown our chars with some tequila, you know, that kind of deal. But now I think that's a good point. You know, like I said, with the support network being on Anesia that's totally makes it bearable, which is, you know, it could be a, it could be a blessing and a curse, right. If you're there too long, then you're just kind of, eh, you're just kind of smudging through it and you're just like, oh, you're not really growing anywhere. I'm just kind of, I'm just kind of hanging out. But in that same sense, right? No matter how, sort of bad it sucks you have to keep it professional at some point actually at all times, you should really keep her professional. You can't go in there and like, Hey boss, she really suck. And just be like, all right, I'll be here next week. You know,
Kyle: 14:34
right.
Pat: 14:36
doesn't work that way. But now you have to keep her professional. I get it. Like, I'm not the most patient man in the world. So like, and God bless my wife who has seen me change jobs more times than I care to count or admit You know, I used to come home and just, I used to just green and bear it and just pound my fist on the table. Like, you know, oh my God, this is just so, you know, insert daily problem I had here, you know, that kind of thing, but you know, it's, you gotta keep professionally, you gotta put your face on and be like, okay. Yep. Yep. You're good. Yep. Uhhuh, you know, cause as large as the it industry is, it's very small when it comes to. Like actual employment. Like, it's amazing how many people I know that know someone else that I'm, that I worked at a different job. Like they have no like direct correlation cuz they didn't work at the same job, but they know somebody that I worked with at job X. So like, and you never know, like you could be set up at a cool place and like, like one day you go in there and like a job really sucks and you're like, all right, I'm gonna tell the boss off and you go in there and go. You suck and all this other stuff, and then you walk out and then you get a new job. Right. I recommend doing that. If you already have a new job, don't go in there and guns, a blaze when you don't have a job. Cause you're not gonna, that's not gonna end well for you, but you know, and you go in there and you be like, all right, I quit. See you later. Blah, blah. And then you find a cool job. You're really working well, it's all good. And like a year later they restructure and they bring in new people. And they like, they bring in like your old boss or like someone that was above your old boss and all of a sudden now you're like, oh no, you know, it's like, oh no. So I think that comes with like, don't burn a bridge sort of thing, even, you know, even if it really sucks. And you're like walking in the hell every day, just don't burn a bridge. Just, it is what it is. And, you know, just keep moving forward cuz you're, it's just not. Down the road. Cause you will meet them again somewhere. Like whether that's at another company, whether that's at an event that your company is a part of a demo you know, an outing of some sort, you're gonna meet them again just, it's not worth it. It's not worth your professional reputation to do that.
Kyle: 16:56
It's much better to like, be cool with the people. Even if, you know, you don't see eye to eye or something like that, people grow, people change. Like you said, you could run into 'em a couple years down the road. You know, you and I both know, as, as far as vendors and tech and stuff go, at least in the valley, there's only a few. and a lot of the events overlap in the tech field and stuff like that. So there's definitely a good chance that you're gonna run into somebody somewhere. And, you know, if you were a jerk to that person, you could be like, oh, that guy, you know, and like, like we talked about one of the other episodes, like it's so tight knit around here, you know, it's like the seven degrees of Kevin bacon or whatever. Like everybody knows everybody who knows somebody and you're. Yeah. So ju just be cool. Don't be a jerk. Don't try and like step on people to, to get up in a round and stuff like that. Cause it's only gonna come back to hurt you.
Pat: 17:51
Yep. Yep. Agreed a hundred percent. So just be cool in that aspect. I think it's just be who of you to You know, shake your head and, you know, walk away. And in that same breath, you know, again, we talk about that. Talk about this on the show all the time at your soft skills, right? So you have to develop them over time. It's not like something that you've, that you like automatically are born with. Right. So, you know, things like, you know, Being a good listener you know, team player communicating in a healthy way, as far as, you know, opening the lines of communication and being clear, you know, that kind of thing. That's a big one. You know, they're all important skills to have in the workplace. It just makes your time at said job better. Just easier to deal with you know, that sort of thing. So, you know, we talk about emotional intelligence all the time, you know, just keeping that up to snuff and, you know, keeping a level head it helps navigate those world of, you know, the world of politics, you know, with that being said, so, you know, but. Those soft skills are great, but you have, like I said, you have to find a way to speak up for yourself. You know, kind of, at least for me I'm not good at it. I'm not a confrontational person, so I, I have trouble with, you know, with that piece of it. But it can be difficult I guess, to be brave in those situations and the, you know, make your voice heard. But you know, there's a time and place where to stand up and. This is the way it is, you know, this is, you know, this is my line in the sand and you know, I'm not gonna cross it, you know, sort of thing, or is a big one. Right. So, cuz I know a lot of like, I don't say a lot, but I could imagine how office politics get to like a bullying stage or like someone like really taking advantage of it. And you're like, all right, this is it. Like I come here to earn a paycheck and you know, go home. I don't have. I'll take shit from you, you know, that sort of thing. So, you know, speaking up in those terms is a good one to think, okay, look, you know, know where your line is and draw it, you know, that sort of thing. So, I don't know. Have you ever had any experience like that with not necessarily bullying, bullying, but like staying up for yourself and being like, look, this is too far or
Kyle: 19:55
Yeah. And I think that definitely came with. Like age changing roles and stuff. Like, you know, when I first started out in the tech field, I would do like anything to make everybody happy and try and, you know, progress and, you know, like work all these extra hours and stuff like that. And then it ended up getting into the point where like, oh, well, Kyle do that and Kyle will do this. And it just. It ended up being like overwhelming, where I'm like here working all these extra crazy hours and stuff like that. And it was just like, I wanted to be helpful and I wanted to progress and grow and do better. And it just ended up being like kind of a take advantage of situation cuz and never had any boundaries. I didn't, you know, didn't kind of really expect that for my coworkers and stuff. Like.
Pat: 20:43
Yeah,
Kyle: 20:44
And then I got older and I'm like, oh, now I kind of see what's going on here. And we're gonna put the kibosh on that going forward because that's kind of one of those things where like, once you kind of let it get some roots in there it's a whole lot harder to stop it than it is. If you just cut it off before it even happens.
Pat: 21:00
Yep. Yeah, I agree. I think that's, I think that's the big one. Trying to, again, set boundaries and say, okay, look, you can or cannot do this, or yes, I'm willing to put up with this or no, I'm not, you know, and kind of, kind of go from there. You know, but the I think at the end of the day, I think everybody needs to just kind of take a step back and say, okay, look, you know, you have to try to maintain a positive outlook on this and say, Everybody's got a bad day. No one's saying that, you know, no one has bad days. I had bad days all the time, but you know, and again, you're gonna be mentally, physically exhausted, you know? Complaining about said problems in a non constructive way can be can take a toll on others, right. They can be distracting for others around you, right. Or part of your team, or, you know, that sort of thing. So I think like a positive outlook, positive disposition. At your workplace could really increase. It increases a bunch of things. It increases your mental state increases your likability. You know, it makes it easier to collaborate with said colleagues because they want to collaborate with you, you know, that sort of thing. So I feel like that's a big one there as. You know, and just, you know, basic respect and things of that nature, you know, but I'm, you know, I haven't met anyone in the workplace that doesn't like respect people. It's just that everyone's a little different in how they show that respect, I guess, is probably a better way to, to put that, like, we've all had annoying coworkers or we've all had, you know, those. Go run to the boss with every little thing or like keep a running notepad on you. Like, oh my God, he did this today. You know, that kind of thing, but it's just like, you just gotta try to navigate those waters and kind of try to get ahead of that or else be like, all right. If I do, this is whoever it, my department gonna, you know, write this down in his notebook and talk to the boss at the end of the week, you know, that kind of thing. So you try to look ahead of that and say, okay, look, what's the deal with, how do I handle this without, you know, sort of getting up in the middle of the room and screaming, right? That sort of thing. I don't know the other thing too. I think, I guess this sort of wraps it all together or is a big piece of it, but the gossip at work I've been to places that gossip left and right. And it's just like, oh my God, you guys are like, you guys just keep going? It's like, oh shut up. Like Jesus. I've, you know, I've done that. I've been there. It's hard to get out of, like, cuz you just like the gossip thing is like a it's like a second nature. Like you can't like you, can't not partake in the gossip. Like if it's constantly around you, you know what I mean? You're like, oh my God, you know, it's like, oh yeah, he did this or blah, blah, blah, this and that. So it's like, eh, so gossip is a big one. Try to stay out of that again. It can only hurt. It can only hurt you in. Instance. So like, can damage your reputation or, you know, or career. You know, if you have a boss that makes decisions based off of that, then you know, that gossip is not gonna, is not gonna help you like at all personal information. Right? So I, I don't know, I'm pretty open as a person. So I share a lot of things with my coworkers as far as, you know, wife and kids and you. That sort of thing. But some people aren't that way. Some people don't necessarily like that instance of personal information being out there and Hey, I, you know, I barbecued on Saturday. Like they just don't they just don't care. So, you know, again, it's just the type of person you know, that's, you are and what you're willing to share and things of that nature. The other thing too, and I know. I know our world is like, it's constantly engrossed in this at the moment. But I think topics that work that are off limits the two big for me are religion and politics don't even, oh my God. Don't even try it cuz you're gonna make an end enemy outta somebody. It's like, don't just don't.
Kyle: 25:03
Yeah. That's just playing with fire.
Pat: 25:05
Yeah. You're like, just stop. Like, I actually had a boss do that. Like I actually had a boss interject politics in a meeting and I was just like, Ooh, that is cringe. Like, it's just so cringe. Like whether you agree with that person or not, that's an office, like just just no.
Kyle: 25:23
You save that shit for home or Twitter or you know, Reddit or something like go create a burner account and post all the nonsense you want online
Pat: 25:32
That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Save that world for the Twitter mess. You know, it's like, oh my God.
Kyle: 25:39
and you know, that even might be a thing too. You gotta watch out for, you know, like with the personal information and stuff like that. It, if you have an account and you're posting all sorts of stuff like that, and then people at work, find it or something like that. Cuz you, you hear and read all those stories too. Like
Pat: 25:56
Yep.
Kyle: 25:56
somebody says something on Facebook and then, you know, a couple weeks later they end up getting terminated because you're like, well, we didn't like what you said kind of deal.
Pat: 26:07
Yeah. That's the other thing too. Like, I don't know how, I don't know how you feel about this Kyle, but like, are you a fan of. Adding your boss on Facebook or Twitter or any of the social sites. Like I haven't, I have in some instances and have not in others, cause I just know it's not gonna end well, so I'm just like me stay away from you. But I, I have most of my colleagues and bosses and whatnot that I worked at the cable company were friends on Facebook and you know, that sort of thing. So, you know, shout out to them. But you know, I have, it's just. You know, as I get deeper into my career it's not as important as it used to be. Cuz you're right. Cause it's just, you're gonna say something and then all of a sudden. That person now has a different view of you from a personal level and it bleeds into work. It does it. You could sit here and tell me it doesn't and all this nonsense. Now it does just shut up. It does. It totally does. Like, especially with politics, like it is such a divided world out there. Like they can't. Keep it separate. They just can't like it, it just blends together. So I'm just like, eh, no, like, but what I find interesting, especially with the whole social media thing and the politics that, you know, kind of go on inside the social media circles, like I find it interesting now that people I come across on Twitter and whatnot, I used to be a big Twitter guy. Then I really kind of failed off on. Now I'm sort, I'm not as big as I used to be, but I'm back a little bit now with the show. And I appreciate everyone that's, you know, friended me on Twitter and whatnot and, you know, but I find it interesting that I look at these people's profiles and they say, you know, they just give a little blurb, like, Hey, blah, blah, blah. I'm a blah, blah, blah, and a blah, blah, blah. Tweets are my own. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, are we that, did we come that far as society that you have to say, tweets are your own and not a recollection of your company? Like that's a little, that's a little odd, like I get why, but man, is that odd?
Kyle: 28:07
Yeah, I've done basically just like the LinkedIn kind of connections at this point. You know, no, no Twitter, no Instagram, Facebook, none of that stuff. And I'm just like, cuz my LinkedIn is like my professional. It shows my work, it's got accomplishments and stuff and you know, I'm not going on there. Put anything crazy. So that kind of, yeah.
Pat: 28:29
Yeah. Now I hear you. It's an interesting dynamic now with, you know, social media being such a part of our culture and a part of our world that You know, you have to sort of you have to say that, which is kind of weird, but it is what it is, I guess, but yeah, no politics, no religion. It almost feels like politics is like out ranked religion as far as, you know, like subjects to talk about, you know, it's like, When you and I were growing up, it's like, oh no, religions are politics at the table. And now it's like, all right, no politics. Religion's back on the table.
Kyle: 29:03
Yeah. Right.
Pat: 29:05
it's totally cool.
Kyle: 29:06
yeah. We've given that one a pass
Pat: 29:08
Yeah. It's like all, but no, I think that's I think that's a good one. Anything else from you, Kyle, as far as examples or anything you wanted to get across?
Kyle: 29:15
I would definitely say with that gossip don't get stuffed up in it. Don't and you know, like, If whoever's coming to you to bitch about somebody else, you know that they're going to somebody else to bitch about you and like, just don't get wrapped up in it, you know, just keep your hands clean, keep, stay out of it. Be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Just it's so much easier than the round and round. And the next thing you know, like, you know, somebody's oh, he said this, you said that getting weird at work, like it's just not worth.
Pat: 29:46
Yep. Yep. A hundred percent agree. I'll share it, the story where I if you listen to this show before I've gotten fired from one job and one job only, and that place was a. All of his politics Haven. Like you could not get away from it in any aspect. It was in your face all day, every day. But yeah, I remember, and this was my fault as far as, you know, sort of who'd I, who I talked to and, you know, trusting them to not say anything little did I know, you know, they were, you know, as soon as I got outta their office, they were running outta the office to. Someone else. And it's just like, oh, you know, but yeah, that it, and it bit me it bit me. Good. So just, you know, take it from me of just it's so tempting not to engage or I should say it's so tempting to engage. You just, you have to stay out of it for your own sanity for your own career sanity. It's just an interesting way of life and it's a constant jocking for, you know, the better rung of the ladder, right. or the better, you know, the office hierarchy, you know, that sort of thing. It's like, all right.
Kyle: 30:54
even being social, you know, being part of a group and fitting in and stuff like, oh, that's what everybody else is doing. And like, you wanna fit in. You wanna be part of it and then like, it's not great. You don't want that.
Pat: 31:06
No, not at all. Not at all. Yeah, I would just, yeah, it's just It's an interesting time, you know, out there as far as the office politics scheme is concerned, but you're gonna run into it. It is what it is. It's just, it's a part of life. I don't know what else to say
Kyle: 31:23
Right, right. Just you know, get ahead of it. If you can try and like, know the signs, realize what's going on and stuff like that. So you don't get like, just accidentally sucked into it. And then the next thing you know, you're like trying to dig your way out.
Pat: 31:35
I would agree. And I would just, again, focus on performing your job well, and all you can really do is hope for the best, right? That's all you can really do do what you can. It's like one of those things you could run from it, but you can't hide, you know?
Kyle: 31:47
Well, here's something pan, like what do you think about this? So, you know, back when everybody worked on prem, you know, we were in it together. We were all meeting at a central building or whatever, working in a cube or whatever. How do you think that dynamic changed now with all the office politics and like now remote work and.
Pat: 32:09
Yeah, that's a good point. I personally, I think it's gotten personally for me. I think it's gotten better. Right? I think it's gotten better, cuz you're not in, you're not in the same space or you're not like there's a way to put you on mute and like say the F word. As you're talking to people there is not a mute button when you're in the conference room with them. So I think that helps. But I think everybody works differently now. I think some people like the work from home, some people don't have the discipline. I used to not have the discipline. I used to hate working from home because, you know, there's all, there's like a billion distractions here at home. Right. There's TV, there's a PlayStation dogs. There's, you know, there's Twitter, you know, it's like, you know, now I've gotten much better at it. Like I have a mindset for at home. And I don't have the drive anymore. I don't have to drive 45 minutes, one way to, to go. So, I, you know, you do miss some of that water cooler chat, if you will, like you miss some of the. Oh, let's go to lunch or, oh, let's, you know, I just, I need a break. Let's take a walk around the building, you know, that sort of thing, you know, you miss that. Yeah. I could walk here in my development. Yeah. But you know, by myself. So that's a little different, but as far as like actual meeting and collaborating, I don't think it's that at least for me, I don't think it's that different. Cuz where I was at Quill and I and venerable really I was the only guy on my team that was in, in my state. So all the meetings I had at venerable, they were remote anyway. So, it, it didn't matter. Shout out to those guys. But at venerable at at redac hill the guys were in the office with me. So. They sat right next to me. So, you know, they were, you know, Hey, let's go to lunch or, Hey, I gotta, you know, I just need a break. Let's go stretch and you know, that sort of thing. But ultimately I, I don't think the actual work I don't think has suffered is just people aspect of it, I think is. Is what's different. But you know, Hey who's say you can't, you know, pick up the phone and, or text him and say, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be at the, I'm gonna be at the farmer's market tomorrow for some barbecue chicken lunch. So come on over, you know, which I will be, I'll be in. I'll be I'll be at my old stop. Actually, the where my office is out that way, where I used to work at Renco, it was right around the corner. So, the Y missing farmer's market is right there, which has some awesome. Has some banging barbecue. Me tell you. Yeah. So that's my spot. So yeah, so I might, I actually might text the guys from Quill and be like, oh, I'm gonna be here. Knock, gonna woods, come meet me for lunch. So we'll see what happens. But I think the work part of it, I think it, yeah, it doesn't suffer at all. Cause the place where I'm at now. You know, the guys, they guys on my team live in my state, but they're, you know, nobody goes to an office anymore. Our office is empty. I have a desk there, but it, you know, I go there like once a month, like, so, and nobody forces me to, so they're like, oh yeah, if you wanna stay home, great. If you wanna go in great. You know, so I'm like, all right, I'll stay home.
Kyle: 35:03
Yeah.
Pat: 35:04
You know, you hear a lot about office politics and, you know, with some of the office politics gets way outta hand. Like I wanna say, like, I don't know that remember it's like a few weeks ago where that guy from Google got fired, cuz he, like he said something with their AI and whatnot and then like Google didn't want. Like out and about and then, and like, he's like, no, I had like a full blown conversation with our AI and blah, blah. And Google's like, nah. And then like two weeks later, Google was like, you're fired. It's like what? You know, so that's a little wild or like, you know, stuff that's out there, like treating some places or some people you know, or firing them based off of their. Based off of their beliefs, what, you know, political or, you know, whatever you know, targeting certain groups, you know, that's probably like office politics. Going off the rails, like you just don't want that stuff bleeding out. You're like, oh man, like how toxic does your culture have to be? If you have people like, it's act it's out there in the ether of the internet being like, yeah, they target X group and you're like, Ooh, that's not so good. You know, you know? Yeah. So it's just, it's a dirty game and it, but ultimately I think P office politics and office politics is a direct result of company culture. I And company culture starts at the top, starts at the top with sea level people and they're setting the culture that rolls downhill. Right. And it's one of those things like, you know, if you're a, if you're a manager position or whatever and you could take this for the grain of salt or not, but. You know, you always, if you have a problem, you always bitch up. You never bitch down. Like it just seems like you always complain to your uppers. You don't complain downward, cuz that's just, that's weird. It's the opposite of the progress you're trying to make. Like what is that person like if somebody reports to you and you have a problem with your boss, why are you complaining? To that person that reports to you, that's complaining downhill like that. That's not gonna solve any problems. All that's gonna do is gonna make that person like second guess like, Hey, like if my boss is having problems, you know, I'm eventually gonna have them or, you know what I mean? Like, it's the weird, I it's a culture thing. It's just a lot of companies have problems with culture. I think anyway. At least the ones I've been at they've had some issues with culture and it's like, I don't know if anybody knows what culture is like, it's this weird. How do you define company culture? Like, is it, you know, ping pong tables and, you know, free pizza of Fridays or is it like work? Work life is actually like work life balance and you know, a decent paycheck. you know what. So, I don't know, that's kind of, that's kind of where I fall. That was kind of it. I know this is kind of a shorter one and I know talked into the ether and went off the rails a little bit, but, um, I not, I, we thought it was a good episode as far as to kind of bring and a lot of people trying to break into the industry. Can't like, they don't understand what the office politics are. So we try to. Get a little bit of that. Get ahead of a little bit of that and say, okay, look, you know, this is what to expect. Just, you know, keep your head down, do your work and, you know, hope for the best. Be nice to people, you know, set yourself up for success and not try to get into the life. Suck that is office politics, cuz it will suck your life. Kyle, anything else you wanted to uh, spot on here?
Kyle: 38:49
no, I think that pretty much kind of covers it.
Pat: 38:51
Cool. Just a couple of side notes for you find folks out there. We're toying around with the idea of a live I shouldn't say live, we're toying around with the idea of a question and answers show. We're trying to figure out how to facilitate that as far as how to get questions, how you can ask questions. So I don't know whether that's gonna be like a Google form. Whatnot. We want it to be anonymous. We don't wanna know who you are just for privacy reasons. And you know, I'm sure you don't want us knowing who you are and what kind of, depending on what kind of question you ask, whatever. You know, so maybe a Google form is probably some is probably a good one. Our survey is out there now on the, on Google form where we don't know who anybody is, like, it doesn't ask for an email or anything like that. So stay tuned for that. As far as a looking. A Q and a session. We're also touring with the idea of a live episode. I know some of the live stuff, some other folks that we that are in our space have done live episodes before and they've it's done well for them. So we're trying to see if that would be good for us as well. So if you have an opinion on, on, if you want to do a live show or, you know, have a live. Live Q and a or whatever that is a live show. Certainly let us know we can facilitate that. We're looking at that. Other than that, I think that's it. Kyle, you got anything else? If not, we'll wrap up and get outta here.
Kyle: 40:08
I think we pretty much covered, you know, without getting in uh, specific scenarios and whatnot, but like, you know, those are kind of some of the things to look out for and, you know, try not to get into the dark side of the office politics.
Pat: 40:22
Into the weeds. Oh
Kyle: 40:23
Yeah.
Pat: 40:24
all right. Cool. Ready? We're gonna get outta here this week. Thanks for joining us again, as always appreciate you hanging out. We really Me personally, I'm kind of floored at this podcast has really taken off the way it has. We've gotten so much positive feedback from everybody. We really appreciate everybody taking the time and reaching out to us, whether that's on Twitter, email Facebook and LinkedIn is the new one for us. LinkedIn's doing the LinkedIn page is doing very well. So if you haven't if you haven't stopped on. On over to our LinkedIn page, all of our socials will be in the show notes as usual. So come follow us. Oh, I know the other thing our website's getting a refresh. How can I forget
Kyle: 40:59
yeah.
Pat: 40:59
I totally forgot. Yeah, so breaking, breaking, bys, pod.io. It is getting a refresh from our buddy, Andrew. So shout out to him. He's gonna. Put something together for us in the next couple of weeks. So be on, look out for a new, fresh coat paint on the website. So that's, that'll be cool. So thanks to him for doing that and taking his time to kind of help two guys like us, but now we were really appreciate everybody's feedback that we get and we're really trying to make this some cool stuff. So. Again breakingbytespod.io is the website. You can get all your stuff right from there. Whether that's you subscribe to your platform or choice iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify plain RSS feed. It's all there. Throws a rating on iTunes. I know a lot of you folks listen on iTunes or at least from an apple iPhone. That seems to be the majority of our listeners come through apple iTunes. So you're already listening. Go throw us a rating. That'd be awesome. Or simply tell a friend, right? Word of mouth is great too. In, in the times that we live in, that'd be great. Again, Twitter. linked.com/breakingbytes pod. facebook.com/breakingdownthebytes. The discord server, the show note or the invite is in the show notes. And then also we have a survey out there. I forgot. It's been hanging out there for a while. It's actually rebranded under. So you wouldn't be in it, which was the former name of the show. There's a survey out there with I think there's like 10, 10 or 12 questions out there. Again, it's all anonymous. We don't know who you are, just it helps us get some answers, some feedback from people and helps us tweak the show a little bit as to what you guys are liking versus not liking. So, that survey link will be in the show notes as well. Again thanks for joining. We will see you next week with another episode. See you, Kyle.
Kyle: 42:34
I hard to.